资本实证论
出版社:商务印书馆
出版日期:1997-08-01
ISBN:9787100011563
作者:【奥】庞巴维克
页数:437页
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精彩书评 (总计1条)
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这本书的译名应该是《正面资本论》或《资本正面理论》，译者居然把positive译成实证，真是愧对庞巴维克。参考下面中英对照的引文，第一段摘自译者序，在上下文中，反动负面的理论如何能对应成实证论？“Lastly, the Socialist or Exploitation theory, which makes interest simply a gain from exploited labour, is shown to be a theory which could only arise on the negative basis of the unsatisfactory accounts hitherto given, and on the positive basis of a mistaken value theory. When an income obtained without work and without risk was claimed as the reward of abstinence, and when all value was ascribed to the action of material labourers, it was inevitable that there should rise a reactionary theory proving that interest was robbery. Thus the board was swept clean for the Positive Theory. 最后，社会主义或剥削的理论一它只把利息看作是从劳动剥削来的所得。他指出的这个理论，只能产生于迄今人们所提出的不能令人满意的说明的消极基础，以及错误的价值理论的积极基础上。如果把一种不劳而获的和不冒风险而取得的收入说成是节制的报酬，如果把一切价值归之于劳动者的活动，不可避免地要产生一种反动的理论，证明利息是掠夺。经过对上述的一些理论的批判，这样就为实证论〔正面理论〕扫清了道路。”第二段摘自最后总结，庞巴维克直截了当的指出“通过从逻辑上来对价值基本理论进行阐发，我已成功地找到了对利息的解释”，这里明明白白指的是逻辑演绎的方法，而不是实证研究。“And now to finish. On a former occasion, at the end of the historical part of my work, I laid down the programme for my positive theory in the following words.—"To find for the vexed problem a solution which invents nothing and assumes nothing, but simply and truly attempts to deduce the phenomena of the formation of interest from the simplest natural and psychological principles of our science." I cannot wish more than the recognition that, in the carrying out of the work, I have been true to my programme. For if, through logically developing the elementary theory of value, I have succeeded in obtaining the explanation of interest, it will give the strongest security that could be wished that we are moving on the right lines with two theories, that of value and that of capital. 那末，现在就结束吧。在以往一个场合里，在本书的历史部分末，我曾用以下的词句为我的实证论〔正面理论〕制定了一个纲领－“要为这个恼人的问题，找出一个答案，这个答案即不发明什么，也不假定什么，只真诚地试图根据我们科学的最简单的自然原理和心理原理推究利息形成现象的源流”。我想我必须承认，在执行这项工作中，我一直是忠实于我的纲领的。因为，如果说，通过从逻辑上来对价值基本理论进行阐发，我已成功地找到了对利息的解释，那末，这就非常有力地证明了我们关于两个理论(价值理论和资本理论）的讨论是沿着正确的路线进行的。”困惑中求教Jeffery Tuck教授如下：I do have a question regarding Bohm-Bawerk's book,The Positive Theory of Capital, and want to ask your opinion. In early 1960s, Bohm-Bawerk's book was translated into Chinese by a Marxism theorist. He translate positive as positivist in Chinese. As I go through the translation, I found everywhere in the book where it mentioned positive theory, the translation was always "positivist theory". However, when looking at the English translation, it clearly showed positive theory was used as the opposite of negative(exploitation) theory as defined by Karl Marx. I was very confused and want to ask for your clarification. Bohm-Bawerk's The Positive Theory of Capital had nothing to do with Positivist theory, right?得到回复：“you are absolutely right! ”后记：Jeffery Tuck在介绍罗斯巴德的新书Economic Controversies时这样写到：After Murray Rothbard finished his theoretical magnum opus - Man, Economy, and State - he turned his attention away from pure positive theory toward dealing with the opposition to Austrian theory. The result was a long series of fantastic scholarly articles taking on every error of the day, and our day too. 即使在当代英语里，positive theory也不一定就是实证的意思，更别说在庞巴维克的年代了。当然，瑕不掩瑜的是，本书翻译质量仍属中上，比当今一些粗制滥造之作强多了。推荐给对奥地利学派感兴趣的朋友阅读。
精彩短评 (总计23条)
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中文译本出版于1964年,有人敢正确翻译标题? -
还是干点正经事吧 -
LZ似乎对经济学是个外行， 在经济学中，实证研究方法是指排斥一切价值判断只研究经济本身的内在规律，这是符合庞巴维克的观点的，也与后来的西方经济学主流一致，所以postive只能翻译为实证。 -
《美国大萧条》里第一章也是这么（”实证“）翻译的。我认为，positive 应该是“确定的”的意思，以区分normative theory，只是一种陈述的方式。
两者的区分是“A positive statement is a statement about what is and that contains no indication of approval or disapproval”，例如：“The moon is made of green cheese”；“A normative statement expresses a judgment about what ought to be”，例如：“The world would be a better place if the moon were made of green cheese”。我同意3楼的翻译，positive theory翻译成”正论“比较恰当——因为即便不把”positive“这个词翻译出来，也是可行的。觉得5楼的论述是错的，positive theory在经济学中可能是指”排除价值判断的理论“，但显然不能翻译为”实证理论“，这是有歧义的。 -
先收下，到底是经典 -
自然经典 -
西方经济学永远的经典。 -
可以不错的 -
批判马克思的书 -
本书作者是奥地利学派早期的重要思想人物，在门格尔和米塞斯（以及后来的哈耶克）之间承上启下的作用。本书的中译本序言1964年所写，内含不少那个时代的大批判，但多少有些介绍性内容。 -
楼主说：“用原子化的方法处理人，用不含人性的假设构建理论，这类做法本身是否是价值立场则是实证主义者不屑回答的问题。”这个我不是很同意。实证经济学是不可能有所谓的价值立场的，一旦存在价值立场，就已经偏向规范经济学，这两种范畴必须严格划分。楼主你还必须注意，原子化假设这种东西不是价值立场，而是方法论，你这是把二者混淆起来谈了。楼主认为实证研究方法排斥逻辑演绎法，我不知道你是从哪里得出的，新古典经济学是排斥奥地利学派，但是并不排斥逻辑演绎法，请不要把两者等同起来。。而且按照楼主的说法，好像实证分析排斥演绎逻辑，我不知道楼主你看不看现代经济学的论文，现代经济学的理论结构几乎完全使用逻辑演绎法推导出来的。我还专门查看了实证研究的含义：。实证研究是指从大量的经验事实中通过科学归纳，总结出具有普遍意义的结论或规律，然后通过科学的逻辑演绎方法推导出某些结论或规律，再将这些结论或规律拿回到现实中进行检验的方法论思想，实证分析只分析经济事实本身，不进行经济事实背后的价值判断，庞巴维克使用边际效用论替代马克思的剩余价值论，很明显就避免了后者带来的价值判断的问题，不会产生所谓的种种阶级问题，这就是所谓的实证分析，这庞巴维克的方法论上来讲，翻译为实证恰恰是最适合的翻译。很明显，楼主对所谓的实证经济学和规范经济学并不了解，并且把方法论和价值判断范畴混淆。
最后，我要说此文也是实证分析，不涉及文章背后的楼主的价值判断。 -
实证positive本身就是从正面建设理论的意思啊。在费雪《利息理论》的中译中，该书被译为《资本正论》。 -
完爆马克思的《资本论》 -
经济学名著，非常喜欢。 -
经典就是经典!绝对不容错过的好书！ -
用主观价值论、边际效用论、供求规律、货币的时间价值等几个基本原理解释价格、成本、工资、资本家利润、利息以及马克思所谓剩余价值的问题，庞的洞察力令人折服。 -
推理小说般流畅的推导 -
终于知道什么是利润了！！！ -
楼主的理解是正确的。这本书是三卷本《资本与利息》的第三卷，前两卷是破，在批评中阐述自己的资本理论，而这一卷是立，其意思当然是直截了当的正面阐述的资本理论，跟“实证”没关系。 -
也不是《正面资本论》或《资本正面理论》啊，应该是《资本的正确理论》或者《正确的资本理论》。因为The Positive Theory of Capital是接着Capital and Interest的第二卷，Capital and Interest把历史上关于利息的理论都综述及批了一遍；接着就是庞巴维克建立自己认为正确的资本及利息理论了。 -
庞巴维克不愧是奥地利学派的第二代领袖，本书对资本主义“迂回”的生产方式的诠释以及对资本与利息理论的剖析，其实是后来他的学生米塞斯的商业循环理论的重要基础。 -
这本书的译名应该是《正面资本论》或《资本正面理论》，译者居然把positive译成实证，真是愧对庞巴维克。参考下面中英对照的引文，第一段摘自译者序，在上下文中，反动负面的理论如何能对应成实证论？
“Lastly, the Socialist or Exploitation theory, which makes interest simply a gain from exploited labour, is shown to be a theory which could only arise on the negative basis of the unsatisfactory accounts hitherto given, and on the positive basis of a mistaken value theory. When an income obtained without work and without risk was claimed as the reward of abstinence, and when all value was ascribed to the action of material labourers, it was inevitable that there should rise a reactionary theory proving that interest was robbery. Thus the board was swept clean for the Positive Theory.
最后，社会主义或剥削的理论一它只把利息看作是从劳动剥削来的所得。他指出的这个理论，只能产生于迄今人们所提出的不能令人满意的说明的消极基础，以及错误的价值理论的积极基础上。如果把一种不劳而获的和不冒风险而取得的收入说成是节制的报酬，如果把一切价值归之于劳动者的活动，不可避免地要产生一种反动的理论，证明利息是掠夺。经过对上述的一些理论的批判，这样就为实证论〔正面理论〕扫清了道路。”
第二段摘自最后总结，庞巴维克直截了当的指出“通过从逻辑上来对价值基本理论进行阐发，我已成功地找到了对利息的解释”，这里明明白白指的是逻辑演绎的方法，而不是实证研究。
“And now to finish. On a former occasion, at the end of the historical part of my work, I laid down the programme for my positive theory in the following words.—"To find for the vexed problem a solution which invents nothing and assumes nothing, but simply and truly attempts to deduce the phenomena of the formation of interest from the simplest natural and psychological principles of our science." I cannot wish more than the recognition that, in the carrying out of the work, I have been true to my programme. For if, through logically developing the elementary theory of value, I have succeeded in obtaining the explanation of interest, it will give the strongest security that could be wished that we are moving on the right lines with two theories, that of value and that of capital.
那末，现在就结束吧。在以往一个场合里，在本书的历史部分末，我曾用以下的词句为我的实证论〔正面理论〕制定了一个纲领－“要为这个恼人的问题，找出一个答案，这个答案即不发明什么，也不假定什么，只真诚地试图根据我们科学的最简单的自然原理和心理原理推究利息形成现象的源流”。我想我必须承认，在执行这项工作中，我一直是忠实于我的纲领的。因为，如果说，通过从逻辑上来对价值基本理论进行阐发，我已成功地找到了对利息的解释，那末，这就非常有力地证明了我们关于两个理论(价值理论和资本理论）的讨论是沿着正确的路线进行的。”
困惑中求教Jeffery Tuck教授如下：
I do have a question regarding Bohm-Bawerk's book,The Positive Theory of Capital, and want to ask your opinion. In early 1960s, Bohm-Bawerk's book was translated into Chinese by a Marxism theorist. He translate positive as positivist in Chinese. As I go through the translation, I found everywhere in the book where it mentioned positive theory, the translation was always "positivist theory". However, when looking at the English translation, it clearly showed positive theory was used as the opposite of negative(exploitation) theory as defined by Karl Marx. I was very confused and want to ask for your clarification. Bohm-Bawerk's The Positive Theory of Capital had nothing to do with Positivist theory, right?
得到回复：“you are absolutely right! ”
后记：Jeffery Tuck在介绍罗斯巴德的新书Economic Controversies时这样写到：
After Murray Rothbard finished his theoretical magnum opus - Man, Economy, and State - he turned his attention away from pure positive theory toward dealing with the opposition to Austrian theory. The result was a long series of fantastic scholarly articles taking on every error of the day, and our day too.
即使在当代英语里，positive theory也不一定就是实证的意思，更别说在庞巴维克的年代了。
当然，瑕不掩瑜的是，本书翻译质量仍属中上，比当今一些粗制滥造之作强多了。推荐给对奥地利学派感兴趣的朋友阅读。
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5楼回答了3楼的问题。现代经济学所谓的实证研究方法不仅指排斥“一切”价值判断，而且排斥奥地利学派的逻辑演绎法。当然，用原子化的方法处理人，用不含人性的假设构建理论，这类做法本身是否是价值立场则是实证主义者不屑回答的问题。